Do You Return The Shopping Trolley, Or Do You Not?

[doctorcatfish]

@avatar

@doctorcatfish

I think we’re not talking in the same mental model here. A cart left in a parking space, or on the sidewalk near the door, could be said to be “returned.” After all, you didn’t remove it from the property! It’s still in their space and under their control; you relinquished all power and claims on it.

You know, I was going to say “That’s such a human thing to say,” except on reflection, what it really is a such an American, or maybe modern English thing to say.

To generalize (this is General after all), this is a mass-korasan thing to say. That is to say, the (disordered) philosophy that holds that the proper response to korasan behavior in a few is to extend diluted versions of korasan-like behavior to as many persons as possible, on the implied theory that “every sophont’s home is his castle* should read “every sophont is a korasan”.

An eldrae would instantly see the absurdity of the premise: you can’t have korasan of any sort without theft from somesoph, somewhere; if one extends and diffuses privilege without the counterbalancing responsibility, one might bolster the illusion of freedom — but at the cost of making the total theft measurably greater.

The English are beginning to feel the consequences of this absurdity. (I refer specifically to the largest of the four constituent countries. AFAICT from across the pond, the Welsh and Scots already knew this.) Americans are, for the most part, still oblivious that such a bargain was made in their name.

@avatar

I have a rather harder time picturing that argument being made in good faith in, say, Germany, and I honestly think if someone were to make it in Japan they’d probably be compelled to commit seppuku on the spot by the sheer force of social disapproval.

And even within the Union, the distinction between the states is often one of how much this mass-korasan notion has taken hold — or, to reverse the perspective, how much the notion of social responsibility has been expurgated.

@avatar

… “abandon in the rough vicinity of” is a legitimate meaning of “return”…

It’s not “rough”, and I point to the cart-retention systems in some places as evidence. The bounds are those of the property line. It’s precise; it’s just sloppy. And as you point out with the Eldraic term, one thing eldrae are not is sloppy: they quite literally had it edited out of them.

Likewise, the distinction here of English vs. Eldraic is not the capability of precise speech; it’s the accessibility. To speak precisely in English is inefficient and difficult to access, so much so that multiple ‘dialects’ exist for just that purpose. Eldraic makes precision easy.

@avatar

…this is the first step down a dark path that ends up with you being only able to shop at Honest Uncle Eneri’s Overpriced Goods Emporium for the Incorrigible Solecist

I lol’d so hard at this that my spouse became worried!

@avatar

That’s the component that’s a contextual, implied ‘social’ contract - the specific courtesy of not leaving a mess behind oneself.

Quite explicit, actually. That’s the Fundamental Contract, first clause, Right of Domain.

Of course the eldrae wrote it out explicitly. How shortsighted of me.

@avatar

(Technically, I suspect, there you could prosecute cart-abandonment as misdemeanor theft on the grounds that lacking the intention to return it vitiates the consent of the owner to lend it to you.)

Makes me contemplate a micro-tort system analogous to a micro-payment system, to deal with such matters efficiently without wasting judicial resources…